With regatd to the interview with Dominique De Villepin at the top, it seems to me (as someome who was given at birth the label 'Jewish' & 'Israeli') that the path forward out of this horror is not strictly in political arrangemnts (that's also important but secondary) but rather it lies in the heart of people, in the ability/capacity to see the humanity of another before viewing them as a label (palestinian, israeli, muslim, jew), as well as in coming to terms with and acknowledging the IMMENSE AND PROFOUND TRAUMA that each "side" has caused the other and in finding ways to heal together.
(and before I proceed I'd just like to say that unlike most Jews, I'm fully aware and acknowledge that the trauma that supremacist zionists caused the local people over the last century - in their brutal ruthless cruel project of dispossesion, annihilation, dehumanization and ERASURE of the local people in Palestine - is many many orders of magnitude greater than the other way around. Some of it is detailed in this shocking documentary https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3psMGQE0iW4 which i can confirm is 100% true based on my own personal experience)
This capacity mentioned above, to step out of one's bubble and hear/see the humanity of another before seeing a label (and the stories attached to the label), requires having CONTACT between the "sides" so that they may hear each other's stories and each other's pain, but this contact is prevented and denied becasue of the incredible dominance of the sectarian nationalist divisive ideology in both sides.
As someone who was given at birth the label 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' (but have already long ago seen through their inaccurate, distorting, corrupting, limiting, imprisoning, divisive, sectarian and God-denying nature, and so have shed these labels) I notice that what allows this ongoing horror to happen (not only today but for more than a century now) is that there is such a total SEPARATION AND DISCONNECTION between the "sides" (this is one of the greatest successes of nationalism, to separate people) so that people from both "sides" have no full understanding of the life experience & trauma experience of those on the "other side".
From what I see, this total DISCONNECTION is exactly what allows people to cheer when "our hero fighters" (whom the other side calls invaders/dispossesors or terrorists) murder, torture, oppress, abuse, slaughter and bomb "them", because each side says "they are evil people who only want to harm us, take our land and kill us/kick us out", and each side has countless examples of actions by the other side that are supposed to "prove" the supposed rightness of their claim.
Each "side" is enclosed and contained within its own SECTARIAN BUBBLE and tells itself its own story, about its trauma and difficulties, and is completely unaware of the life experience and trauma of the "other side".
And so, when the other side reacts (in what it calls self-defense) then the first side interprets it as an attack (becasue of its DISCONNECTION from the stories and sense-making of the other side) and tells a story that "those people on the other side" are evil monsters who only want to harm our side for no reason
It's quite amazing how similar the story that each side tells itself to the story that the other side tells itself, it is practically the SAME STORY - we are the victims here who are only protecting ourselves from the aggression of those evil people over there who only want to harm us and hate us for no reason. We have no one to talk to and negotiate with, they are not human beings, they are sons of Satan who hate us from birth, who only want to destroy us and take our land and kick us out - each side speaks the exact same stories!!
And all this lack of understanding happens simply because there is NO CONTACT between the "sides". This is the tremendous success of nationalism/tribalism, there is a complete disconnection, so that I don't hear the story that the other side tells itself and how they make sense of things, I don't experience their life experience, I don't know anything about their pain, I don't realize how much the story they tell themselves is the same as the story I tell myself, and therefore there is no possibility of experiencing the HUMANITY (the fear, the search for security) that motivates the other, just as it motivates me, and therefore also indifference to the trauma that the other goes through at the hands of "our heroic fighters"
It seems to me that the main engine that drives all of this is that people in tje region (and especially Israelis) undergo a very deep conditioning/indoctrination from a very young age into a separative and SECTARIAN RELIGIOUS-NATIONALIST IDENTITY and learn to believe (contrary to what reality shows) that this separate and divisive identity is what will provide them with protection and security, even though it does THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!
This indoctrination into the separative exclucivist religious-nationalist identity is much more than just mental brainwashing, but it is mainly the conditioning the of the nervous system and emotional system into IDENTIFICATION with a nationalist-religious label (this label equals me. This is me, This label is where my safety & security is to be found), which causes the emotions and the body to react very strongly to anything that they teach me is at odds with this identity.
Strong reaction that comes from the fact that the body/brain/nervous system has been conditioned to learn - through constant repetition in the first years of life (when the personality is formed), again and again and again, and without questioning - this is who I am, that I am this national-religious identity, therefore anything that questions or does not align with or appears to be at odds with this national-religious system of ideas is immediately perceived as a threat to my very existence, because I am this identity/the nationalist-religious label, this is me, and the people over there who do not carry this sacred label are my enemies, a threat to my existence..
It seems to me that those who have fallen into the abyss of sectarianism/tribalism/nationalism (and especially those whose tribalism also involves divisive, excluding, supremacist and God-denying sectarian religious beliefs) have been conditioned to believe that their saftey & security will be found through group exclusion and a sense of separation from the rest of humanity (a feeling that is so deeply imprinted in those who believe that the label of "Jewish" is who they actually are), that security will be found through an attempt to ensure the safety of ONLY one group of people, only those who were born into the "correct" religious-national label (and anyone who was not born into the correct national-religious label can go to hell. She matters a little but not nearly as much as the Chosen People, the most valuable and important people in the universe). It sounds ridiculous, but this is a VERY common & mainstream worldview in the extremely nationalist, ethnocentric, fascistic & exclucivist Israeli society, and it plays a huge part in what brought about this conflict in the first place, since the very early days of sectarian exclucivist zionist nationalism, and its arrival in the middle east from (mostly) eastern Europe.
To me, this is precisely the blindness of the sectarian nationalist-religious identity: trying to create security ONLY for one group, only for a part of the whole (through division, exclusion, separation from the whole and working to secure the narrow interests of only one nationalist-religious identity), such an attempt - of trying to create security ONLY for the part and ignore what this does to the whole - such an attempt can NEVER ever lead to real security but exactly the opposite - this is the number one factor that creates constant conflict and INSECURITY!!!
TRYING TO CREATE SECTARIAN SECURITY (SECURITY ONLY FOR THE PART AND NOT THE WHOLE, ONLY FOR ME AND MY GROUP) IS THE VERY CAUSE OF INSECURITY!!!
In my understanding, tribalism/nationalism and sectarian divisive exoteric religion (which is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what God/Consciousness actually is) is the great disease and blindness of humanity. Is the most destructive and deadly invention that humans have ever invented (not because we are bad, but because we have not psychologically matured yet, and are still blind, and in our naiveté we believed that this is how we will find safety & security, without understanding what we are doing, without realizing that we are actually creating constant INSECURITY when we search for security through the sectarian divisive nationalist-religious identity, when we seek security only for the part and not for the whole).
To me it is absolutely clear that it is the number one cause of human division, separation, antagonism, hatred, conflict, violence, murder and war..
IMHO, the bloodshed can never stop and there will never be security for anyone unless we have the courage to step out of our sectarian bubble and actually listen and truly understand the profound trauma we inflict (this is true for both sides but especially so for Israelis who, in my experience, are incredibly brainwashed and ignorant of the UNSPEAKABLE HORROR CRUELTY INHUMANITY AND TRAUMA that supremacist right-wing zionist immigrants inflicted and inflict on the local native people.
Without feeling the pain endured and understanding what palestinians are actually reacting to, indoctrinated supremacist zionists will just continue with the dispossession, cruelty, pushing out and erasure of the native people, and keep telling themselves 'they are hostile to us for no reason, simply becasue they are evil antisemite monsters by nature..'
I have now finished reading that essay by Glen Martin, which appears to break down in the final section, immediately after the quote I excerpted, where he describes one world government as a top-down hierarchy, to serve the needs of all humans and ecosystems equitably.
Who enforces that with guns?
The fundamental problem is the enforcement of the ecology of an apex forest, by the apex-predators of a savannah, the lions who must eat gazelle...
I personally see not an external-solution, only the "internal" solution of choosing to harmonize with Divine Guidance, the same "solution" which has always existed, but which can begin to guide an ecosystem when there are enough participants, analogous to the tree-root communications network, perhaps.
The cost of hierarchy to a system is high, and it shows up as supporting each layer of hierarchy, and also as the stupidity-at-ground-level of edicts coming from the successive layers of hierarchy. The higher the layer of decision-making, the poorer of a fit the decision is at the intimate level of function, "where the rubber meets the road". The distance from the problem to the solution gets to be so much that the solution worsens the problem, as we can see so readily now.
BRIICS+ seeks to step that down a layer of hierarchy, back down from a globalist empire to orderly trade between nation-states, while seeking to reduce wars, rather than to use them for (inefficient) resource exctraction in service of elite classes.
I think that is the correct top-down step now, and each of us needs to take the personal step of harmonizing, because each of us has to exercise that particular choice freely, for a harmonized global ecology to work.
Thank you very much for this reply. There's a lot on my plate at the moment, so I'd like to give your words time to perculate, and if a response rises up in me then I will be sure to give it expression🙏
Thank You. We are not merely in agreement. We see things the same. I am mostly through the long essay at this link you have sent, and I pick this out as representative. (We need to make a transition from a predatory ecosystem model to "holism", which I think can only be done through active spiritual guidance.) This is the individual-choice of many-together.
"It should be clear that the religious and ethical holism of the great world religions can only inform human life and civilization if the world system is itself transformed to holism. Both capitalism and the sovereign state system block the ascent to holism in the majority of the population. Capitalism breeds greed, lack of compassion, and hardness of heart, while the nation-state breeds false patriotism, blind loyalty, lust for power, and mindless obedience to illegitimate authority. Both systems encourage structural atheism, people believe they are loyal to God, the Tao, or Buddha-nature, but they are in truth worshipping idols: the idols of capital or nation-state power."
I watched the short video. It looked like mostly civilians below and rockets and machine gun fire from the chopper did not look like it could pick out specific targets.
Creeping Charlie can be a tea as an anti microbial and cough suppressant. I picked a bunch in my yard this year washed it and dried it in a vegetable bag. Next year my husband is getting “the weed man”. To care for our lawn. So much for the medicinal tea. Do we have everything backwards?!?
I see that there's not yet any law suits against Pfizer and Moderna? Is it going to be just 'sue the worst jab, let the still totally awful jab makers get away with it?'
I wonder which firms are based in the USA?
Would that be Pfizer and Moderna??
Odd that.
Maybe lawsuits are required too for Pfizer and Moderna - they've caused more damage overall, because they became the dominant clot shots.
Well I’m starting to think Netanyahu and gaits have a contest going. Gaits said by Jan. 2025 everyone will notice the toll on children. And Netanyahu is now going after the children. There is nothing diplomatic that is stopping him.
On the galactic stats,..............ever watch a baseball game where the coach is obviously running on stats?,......they make really stupid mistakes.
On the garden I see from my stats, some tomato and bacon sandwiches in your near future. If you plant broccoli cover it up.
I do have broccoli already, and the brassica family does fairly well with our winters in central Texas. We are looking forward to our green fall tomatoes ripening this month.
I am dismayed at how most(?) Americans, or at least a lot of them, closed their minds around October 12 and figured that anything Israel does is ok with them.
With regatd to the interview with Dominique De Villepin at the top, it seems to me (as someome who was given at birth the label 'Jewish' & 'Israeli') that the path forward out of this horror is not strictly in political arrangemnts (that's also important but secondary) but rather it lies in the heart of people, in the ability/capacity to see the humanity of another before viewing them as a label (palestinian, israeli, muslim, jew), as well as in coming to terms with and acknowledging the IMMENSE AND PROFOUND TRAUMA that each "side" has caused the other and in finding ways to heal together.
(and before I proceed I'd just like to say that unlike most Jews, I'm fully aware and acknowledge that the trauma that supremacist zionists caused the local people over the last century - in their brutal ruthless cruel project of dispossesion, annihilation, dehumanization and ERASURE of the local people in Palestine - is many many orders of magnitude greater than the other way around. Some of it is detailed in this shocking documentary https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3psMGQE0iW4 which i can confirm is 100% true based on my own personal experience)
This capacity mentioned above, to step out of one's bubble and hear/see the humanity of another before seeing a label (and the stories attached to the label), requires having CONTACT between the "sides" so that they may hear each other's stories and each other's pain, but this contact is prevented and denied becasue of the incredible dominance of the sectarian nationalist divisive ideology in both sides.
As someone who was given at birth the label 'Jewish' and 'Israeli' (but have already long ago seen through their inaccurate, distorting, corrupting, limiting, imprisoning, divisive, sectarian and God-denying nature, and so have shed these labels) I notice that what allows this ongoing horror to happen (not only today but for more than a century now) is that there is such a total SEPARATION AND DISCONNECTION between the "sides" (this is one of the greatest successes of nationalism, to separate people) so that people from both "sides" have no full understanding of the life experience & trauma experience of those on the "other side".
From what I see, this total DISCONNECTION is exactly what allows people to cheer when "our hero fighters" (whom the other side calls invaders/dispossesors or terrorists) murder, torture, oppress, abuse, slaughter and bomb "them", because each side says "they are evil people who only want to harm us, take our land and kill us/kick us out", and each side has countless examples of actions by the other side that are supposed to "prove" the supposed rightness of their claim.
Each "side" is enclosed and contained within its own SECTARIAN BUBBLE and tells itself its own story, about its trauma and difficulties, and is completely unaware of the life experience and trauma of the "other side".
And so, when the other side reacts (in what it calls self-defense) then the first side interprets it as an attack (becasue of its DISCONNECTION from the stories and sense-making of the other side) and tells a story that "those people on the other side" are evil monsters who only want to harm our side for no reason
It's quite amazing how similar the story that each side tells itself to the story that the other side tells itself, it is practically the SAME STORY - we are the victims here who are only protecting ourselves from the aggression of those evil people over there who only want to harm us and hate us for no reason. We have no one to talk to and negotiate with, they are not human beings, they are sons of Satan who hate us from birth, who only want to destroy us and take our land and kick us out - each side speaks the exact same stories!!
And all this lack of understanding happens simply because there is NO CONTACT between the "sides". This is the tremendous success of nationalism/tribalism, there is a complete disconnection, so that I don't hear the story that the other side tells itself and how they make sense of things, I don't experience their life experience, I don't know anything about their pain, I don't realize how much the story they tell themselves is the same as the story I tell myself, and therefore there is no possibility of experiencing the HUMANITY (the fear, the search for security) that motivates the other, just as it motivates me, and therefore also indifference to the trauma that the other goes through at the hands of "our heroic fighters"
It seems to me that the main engine that drives all of this is that people in tje region (and especially Israelis) undergo a very deep conditioning/indoctrination from a very young age into a separative and SECTARIAN RELIGIOUS-NATIONALIST IDENTITY and learn to believe (contrary to what reality shows) that this separate and divisive identity is what will provide them with protection and security, even though it does THE EXACT OPPOSITE!!
This indoctrination into the separative exclucivist religious-nationalist identity is much more than just mental brainwashing, but it is mainly the conditioning the of the nervous system and emotional system into IDENTIFICATION with a nationalist-religious label (this label equals me. This is me, This label is where my safety & security is to be found), which causes the emotions and the body to react very strongly to anything that they teach me is at odds with this identity.
Strong reaction that comes from the fact that the body/brain/nervous system has been conditioned to learn - through constant repetition in the first years of life (when the personality is formed), again and again and again, and without questioning - this is who I am, that I am this national-religious identity, therefore anything that questions or does not align with or appears to be at odds with this national-religious system of ideas is immediately perceived as a threat to my very existence, because I am this identity/the nationalist-religious label, this is me, and the people over there who do not carry this sacred label are my enemies, a threat to my existence..
It seems to me that those who have fallen into the abyss of sectarianism/tribalism/nationalism (and especially those whose tribalism also involves divisive, excluding, supremacist and God-denying sectarian religious beliefs) have been conditioned to believe that their saftey & security will be found through group exclusion and a sense of separation from the rest of humanity (a feeling that is so deeply imprinted in those who believe that the label of "Jewish" is who they actually are), that security will be found through an attempt to ensure the safety of ONLY one group of people, only those who were born into the "correct" religious-national label (and anyone who was not born into the correct national-religious label can go to hell. She matters a little but not nearly as much as the Chosen People, the most valuable and important people in the universe). It sounds ridiculous, but this is a VERY common & mainstream worldview in the extremely nationalist, ethnocentric, fascistic & exclucivist Israeli society, and it plays a huge part in what brought about this conflict in the first place, since the very early days of sectarian exclucivist zionist nationalism, and its arrival in the middle east from (mostly) eastern Europe.
To me, this is precisely the blindness of the sectarian nationalist-religious identity: trying to create security ONLY for one group, only for a part of the whole (through division, exclusion, separation from the whole and working to secure the narrow interests of only one nationalist-religious identity), such an attempt - of trying to create security ONLY for the part and ignore what this does to the whole - such an attempt can NEVER ever lead to real security but exactly the opposite - this is the number one factor that creates constant conflict and INSECURITY!!!
TRYING TO CREATE SECTARIAN SECURITY (SECURITY ONLY FOR THE PART AND NOT THE WHOLE, ONLY FOR ME AND MY GROUP) IS THE VERY CAUSE OF INSECURITY!!!
In my understanding, tribalism/nationalism and sectarian divisive exoteric religion (which is the POLAR OPPOSITE of what God/Consciousness actually is) is the great disease and blindness of humanity. Is the most destructive and deadly invention that humans have ever invented (not because we are bad, but because we have not psychologically matured yet, and are still blind, and in our naiveté we believed that this is how we will find safety & security, without understanding what we are doing, without realizing that we are actually creating constant INSECURITY when we search for security through the sectarian divisive nationalist-religious identity, when we seek security only for the part and not for the whole).
To me it is absolutely clear that it is the number one cause of human division, separation, antagonism, hatred, conflict, violence, murder and war..
IMHO, the bloodshed can never stop and there will never be security for anyone unless we have the courage to step out of our sectarian bubble and actually listen and truly understand the profound trauma we inflict (this is true for both sides but especially so for Israelis who, in my experience, are incredibly brainwashed and ignorant of the UNSPEAKABLE HORROR CRUELTY INHUMANITY AND TRAUMA that supremacist right-wing zionist immigrants inflicted and inflict on the local native people.
Without feeling the pain endured and understanding what palestinians are actually reacting to, indoctrinated supremacist zionists will just continue with the dispossession, cruelty, pushing out and erasure of the native people, and keep telling themselves 'they are hostile to us for no reason, simply becasue they are evil antisemite monsters by nature..'
https://oneworldrenaissance.com/2021/01/23/holism-fragmentation-and-our-endangered-future-a-new-vision-and-a-new-hope/
I have now finished reading that essay by Glen Martin, which appears to break down in the final section, immediately after the quote I excerpted, where he describes one world government as a top-down hierarchy, to serve the needs of all humans and ecosystems equitably.
Who enforces that with guns?
The fundamental problem is the enforcement of the ecology of an apex forest, by the apex-predators of a savannah, the lions who must eat gazelle...
I personally see not an external-solution, only the "internal" solution of choosing to harmonize with Divine Guidance, the same "solution" which has always existed, but which can begin to guide an ecosystem when there are enough participants, analogous to the tree-root communications network, perhaps.
The cost of hierarchy to a system is high, and it shows up as supporting each layer of hierarchy, and also as the stupidity-at-ground-level of edicts coming from the successive layers of hierarchy. The higher the layer of decision-making, the poorer of a fit the decision is at the intimate level of function, "where the rubber meets the road". The distance from the problem to the solution gets to be so much that the solution worsens the problem, as we can see so readily now.
BRIICS+ seeks to step that down a layer of hierarchy, back down from a globalist empire to orderly trade between nation-states, while seeking to reduce wars, rather than to use them for (inefficient) resource exctraction in service of elite classes.
I think that is the correct top-down step now, and each of us needs to take the personal step of harmonizing, because each of us has to exercise that particular choice freely, for a harmonized global ecology to work.
Thank you very much for this reply. There's a lot on my plate at the moment, so I'd like to give your words time to perculate, and if a response rises up in me then I will be sure to give it expression🙏
Thank You. We are not merely in agreement. We see things the same. I am mostly through the long essay at this link you have sent, and I pick this out as representative. (We need to make a transition from a predatory ecosystem model to "holism", which I think can only be done through active spiritual guidance.) This is the individual-choice of many-together.
"It should be clear that the religious and ethical holism of the great world religions can only inform human life and civilization if the world system is itself transformed to holism. Both capitalism and the sovereign state system block the ascent to holism in the majority of the population. Capitalism breeds greed, lack of compassion, and hardness of heart, while the nation-state breeds false patriotism, blind loyalty, lust for power, and mindless obedience to illegitimate authority. Both systems encourage structural atheism, people believe they are loyal to God, the Tao, or Buddha-nature, but they are in truth worshipping idols: the idols of capital or nation-state power."
Questionaire:
(1) How many Palestinians were involved in the raid ?
(2) How many Palestinians were killed during the raid ?
(3) Who killed them, and how ?
(4) Why were so many Israelis killed during the raid
given they'd better serve as hostages ?
How Long did it take for any IDF to react
-- 2 minutes ?
-- 4 hours ?
-- 8 hours ? ***
Answers originating from unnamed "Government Spokesman",
"Israeli Officials", or "IDF Spokesman", will be duly recorded
but not given any special weight...
*** The Zerohedge piece, above: 'disturbing footage of Israeli forces
firing indiscriminately on civilians approximately ONE HOUR after
the onset of' the raid - gives a much quicker IDF response than some
reports claim......
Lots of questions.
I watched the short video. It looked like mostly civilians below and rockets and machine gun fire from the chopper did not look like it could pick out specific targets.
IDF response times is very central to The 7 0ctober Massacre Narrative,
as is the number of raiders killed...
The quicker the IDF got involved the more likely it killed many civilians,
whereas, if it took HOURS to mix it with the raiders then the claims of
wholesale massacre of innocent, unarmed civilians by blood-thirsty
rampaging savages are more believable...
Why did (some) raiders fly to a Rave some three miles from the Prison
Walls ? (A diversion ? or Just to kill, kill, kill ?)...Captured IDF personnel
become high-value hostages - all raiders would be focused on such
captures...
You're right - lots of questions...
But what is evident is the fluidity, flexibility lack of certain details, various
response times, etc, allows the narrative of The Massacre Narrative
to be adapted to suit the occasion...
The number of innocent, unarmed Israeli civilians massacred on 7 0ctober
quickly escalated. The claim then morphed from 1400 innocent, unarmed civilians,
to 1400 israeli civilians massacred 7 0ctober, to its latest iteration "the 7 0ctober
massacre". Such dispenses with any detail that could cause the Official Narrative
to be unpicked...
Lots of questions.....
Creeping Charlie can be a tea as an anti microbial and cough suppressant. I picked a bunch in my yard this year washed it and dried it in a vegetable bag. Next year my husband is getting “the weed man”. To care for our lawn. So much for the medicinal tea. Do we have everything backwards?!?
I do a lot of weed pulling, myself.
I see that there's not yet any law suits against Pfizer and Moderna? Is it going to be just 'sue the worst jab, let the still totally awful jab makers get away with it?'
I wonder which firms are based in the USA?
Would that be Pfizer and Moderna??
Odd that.
Maybe lawsuits are required too for Pfizer and Moderna - they've caused more damage overall, because they became the dominant clot shots.
The breaking of ranks of an elite class is one step in class-warfare, no?
Hey you have some creeping Charlie there in the garden don’t you?
No creeping Charlie, but a bit of white clover :-), and horseherb if I am not diligent :-(
Well I’m starting to think Netanyahu and gaits have a contest going. Gaits said by Jan. 2025 everyone will notice the toll on children. And Netanyahu is now going after the children. There is nothing diplomatic that is stopping him.
On the galactic stats,..............ever watch a baseball game where the coach is obviously running on stats?,......they make really stupid mistakes.
On the garden I see from my stats, some tomato and bacon sandwiches in your near future. If you plant broccoli cover it up.
I have raised beds, much easier.
I do have broccoli already, and the brassica family does fairly well with our winters in central Texas. We are looking forward to our green fall tomatoes ripening this month.
I am dismayed at how most(?) Americans, or at least a lot of them, closed their minds around October 12 and figured that anything Israel does is ok with them.
;-(